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	<title>Comments on: Torchwood: Children of Earth [SPOILERS]</title>
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	<description>new media, same technology</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 28 Feb 2010 12:46:16 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: VitalikGromovss</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>VitalikGromovss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Aug 2009 14:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the review! I want to say - thank you for this!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the review! I want to say &#8211; thank you for this!</p>
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		<title>By: Vivalkakira</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Vivalkakira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Aug 2009 10:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-71</guid>
		<description>I like that you separate fate from destiny. There is something to be said for trying to account for the idea that we can sometimes fail to fulfill our destiny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like that you separate fate from destiny. There is something to be said for trying to account for the idea that we can sometimes fail to fulfill our destiny.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Ravitz</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Ravitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jul 2009 21:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-49</guid>
		<description>Was interested with the musing on the issue of whether or not increasing cross - media &#039;divergence&#039; between &#039;mainstream&#039; broadcasting and &#039;supplementary&#039; material was going to lessen the impact of &#039;canonicity&#039; in the future. Whilst I agree that this is playing with fire in the sense that it may come, in time, to substantively alienate a fanbase who live and breathe &#039;canon&#039;, it strikes me such &#039;developments&#039; are, to the contrary, ultimately reversions to an earlier era of television programming.

The fan base obession with &#039;canon&#039; and &#039;canonicity&#039; was, for decades, of no concern whatsover to mainstream programmers - the patterning of the (so-called) &#039;classic&#039; series of &#039;Dr. Who&#039; is a notable case in point. There was never the slightest inclination amongst the actual writers and producers of the programme to establish anything other than the barest outline of continuity between one serial and the next, regardless of the &#039;continuing&#039; context of the programme. This was ultimately a recognition that, to the casual viewer at home, such matters were of no concern; indeed, that the development of a cumulative story would work against the &#039;familiarity factor&#039; so dear to e.g. soap operas, whereby the tendency to repeat the same scenarios with the same characters reacting in pretty much predictable manners week after week ultimately reassures the viewers that they can relax. In this sense, eschewing &#039;continuity&#039; is a deliberately &#039;anti dramatic&#039; move, because it forbids significant real character development (of the sort that might bring a sucessful character to a tragic downfall in a real drama, for instance).

The BBC was never lax, back in the day, in promoting cross media &#039;spin off&#039; and yet, because there was no central emphasis on &#039;agreed continuity&#039; from the centre, these &#039;spins offs&#039; were also distinctly varied in their approach towards the basic materials of the series. There is very little in common between, say, the comic strip adventures, radio play realisations, cinematic reproductions, and written stories of the 60&#039;s-80&#039;s era, and, indeed, much that is totally at odds with other established &#039;facts&#039; in different media. A prior generation does not appear to have worried too much about reconciling these contradictions, and simply accepted that more than one version of the character&#039;s background and adventures was allowable.

&#039;Continuity&#039;, in fact, has only become big televisual business in recent years; even in the early 90&#039;s, a show like &#039;The X Files&#039; began its earliest seasons with only the most rudimentary sense that the developments in one episode of the programme should have an impact on developments in later episodes; to all intents and purposes, the investigations of Mulder and Scully were performed in a vacuum - and their behaviour and reactions to phenomena were recast in precisely the same mould week after week. 

However, somewhere in the mid 90&#039;s, &#039;continuity&#039; in programming appears to have taken off in a big way, particularly in the US - we now live in a world that is post &#039;Buffy&#039;, post &#039;The West Wing&#039;, &#039;The Sporanos&#039;, &#039;Lost&#039; etc. etc. - and it is clear that when RTD was looking for models for the new &#039;Doctor Who&#039; at least some of these programmes were his inspiration.

Yet, the real truth about the rise of &#039;continuity&#039;&#039;s hold over &#039;Doctor Who&#039; specifically is that, for such a long time, the fans were allowed to take over the running of the franchise, and refashion the concerns of the programme in their own interest. &#039;Continuity&#039; has always been a sacred cow of fandom, which obsesses with establishing coherent patterns in relation to favoured texts. When the &#039;classic&#039; series went off the air, the flame of interest was kept alight by the fans alone, who spent most of the intervening decade and a half between the loss of one version of the programme and the rise of another expanding &#039;continuity&#039;. Russ Davies was well aware of the fact that the fanbase lobby remained extremely powerful when he revamped Doctor Who, and even went so far as to employ a whole number of old style fans on his writing teams (admitedly, most also had BBC credentials, which will have gone further in establishing their authority at Broadcasting House). Nonetheless, Davies was also extremely wary of pandering too desperately to the fans, and so alienating his &#039;regular&#039; audience, and for the first season, at least, he refused to allow any reference to earlier versions of the programme that might smack of &#039;continuity&#039;, unless they were so universally recognisable as to &#039;alienate&#039; no one (e.g. showing Daleks). In a sense, Davies and his team have been fighting a rearguard action against the &#039;continuity&#039; obesssions of the fans ever since, and attempting to return the programme (and its spin offs) to their roots: by reestablishing the notion that the idea of a &#039;settled continuity&#039; that is jealously guarded and immutable is of no interest to the casual viewer. They pay lip service to these ideas on occasion, but are now confident that they are in a position of such renewed popularity with the &#039;general public&#039; that sticking to strict &#039;continuity&#039; is not a necessity, even if it puts the noses of the fans out of joint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Was interested with the musing on the issue of whether or not increasing cross &#8211; media &#8216;divergence&#8217; between &#8216;mainstream&#8217; broadcasting and &#8217;supplementary&#8217; material was going to lessen the impact of &#8216;canonicity&#8217; in the future. Whilst I agree that this is playing with fire in the sense that it may come, in time, to substantively alienate a fanbase who live and breathe &#8216;canon&#8217;, it strikes me such &#8216;developments&#8217; are, to the contrary, ultimately reversions to an earlier era of television programming.</p>
<p>The fan base obession with &#8216;canon&#8217; and &#8216;canonicity&#8217; was, for decades, of no concern whatsover to mainstream programmers &#8211; the patterning of the (so-called) &#8216;classic&#8217; series of &#8216;Dr. Who&#8217; is a notable case in point. There was never the slightest inclination amongst the actual writers and producers of the programme to establish anything other than the barest outline of continuity between one serial and the next, regardless of the &#8216;continuing&#8217; context of the programme. This was ultimately a recognition that, to the casual viewer at home, such matters were of no concern; indeed, that the development of a cumulative story would work against the &#8216;familiarity factor&#8217; so dear to e.g. soap operas, whereby the tendency to repeat the same scenarios with the same characters reacting in pretty much predictable manners week after week ultimately reassures the viewers that they can relax. In this sense, eschewing &#8216;continuity&#8217; is a deliberately &#8216;anti dramatic&#8217; move, because it forbids significant real character development (of the sort that might bring a sucessful character to a tragic downfall in a real drama, for instance).</p>
<p>The BBC was never lax, back in the day, in promoting cross media &#8217;spin off&#8217; and yet, because there was no central emphasis on &#8216;agreed continuity&#8217; from the centre, these &#8217;spins offs&#8217; were also distinctly varied in their approach towards the basic materials of the series. There is very little in common between, say, the comic strip adventures, radio play realisations, cinematic reproductions, and written stories of the 60&#8217;s-80&#8217;s era, and, indeed, much that is totally at odds with other established &#8216;facts&#8217; in different media. A prior generation does not appear to have worried too much about reconciling these contradictions, and simply accepted that more than one version of the character&#8217;s background and adventures was allowable.</p>
<p>&#8216;Continuity&#8217;, in fact, has only become big televisual business in recent years; even in the early 90&#8217;s, a show like &#8216;The X Files&#8217; began its earliest seasons with only the most rudimentary sense that the developments in one episode of the programme should have an impact on developments in later episodes; to all intents and purposes, the investigations of Mulder and Scully were performed in a vacuum &#8211; and their behaviour and reactions to phenomena were recast in precisely the same mould week after week. </p>
<p>However, somewhere in the mid 90&#8217;s, &#8216;continuity&#8217; in programming appears to have taken off in a big way, particularly in the US &#8211; we now live in a world that is post &#8216;Buffy&#8217;, post &#8216;The West Wing&#8217;, &#8216;The Sporanos&#8217;, &#8216;Lost&#8217; etc. etc. &#8211; and it is clear that when RTD was looking for models for the new &#8216;Doctor Who&#8217; at least some of these programmes were his inspiration.</p>
<p>Yet, the real truth about the rise of &#8216;continuity&#8217;&#8217;s hold over &#8216;Doctor Who&#8217; specifically is that, for such a long time, the fans were allowed to take over the running of the franchise, and refashion the concerns of the programme in their own interest. &#8216;Continuity&#8217; has always been a sacred cow of fandom, which obsesses with establishing coherent patterns in relation to favoured texts. When the &#8216;classic&#8217; series went off the air, the flame of interest was kept alight by the fans alone, who spent most of the intervening decade and a half between the loss of one version of the programme and the rise of another expanding &#8216;continuity&#8217;. Russ Davies was well aware of the fact that the fanbase lobby remained extremely powerful when he revamped Doctor Who, and even went so far as to employ a whole number of old style fans on his writing teams (admitedly, most also had BBC credentials, which will have gone further in establishing their authority at Broadcasting House). Nonetheless, Davies was also extremely wary of pandering too desperately to the fans, and so alienating his &#8216;regular&#8217; audience, and for the first season, at least, he refused to allow any reference to earlier versions of the programme that might smack of &#8216;continuity&#8217;, unless they were so universally recognisable as to &#8216;alienate&#8217; no one (e.g. showing Daleks). In a sense, Davies and his team have been fighting a rearguard action against the &#8216;continuity&#8217; obesssions of the fans ever since, and attempting to return the programme (and its spin offs) to their roots: by reestablishing the notion that the idea of a &#8217;settled continuity&#8217; that is jealously guarded and immutable is of no interest to the casual viewer. They pay lip service to these ideas on occasion, but are now confident that they are in a position of such renewed popularity with the &#8216;general public&#8217; that sticking to strict &#8216;continuity&#8217; is not a necessity, even if it puts the noses of the fans out of joint.</p>
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		<title>By: Alzir</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Alzir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 22:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-46</guid>
		<description>I don’t mind a reasonable amount of holes in the plot. The story has to be moved forward. I only start to have problems with suspending my disbelief, when you can drive an eighteen wheeler truck trough them.

As for acting, I think that Peter Capaldi’s performance was something worth remembering. An artist, not only a professional...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don’t mind a reasonable amount of holes in the plot. The story has to be moved forward. I only start to have problems with suspending my disbelief, when you can drive an eighteen wheeler truck trough them.</p>
<p>As for acting, I think that Peter Capaldi’s performance was something worth remembering. An artist, not only a professional&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: better the mask</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>better the mask</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:50:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Those are certainly plot points that they didn&#039;t address, Alzir. Plot holes are almost a convention of the scifi genre, though, and I could forgive them for most because of the fast pace and compressed format they were operating in. But of course, your mileage may vary.

&lt;I&gt;What was Jack’s plan in going to confront the 456? Just yell NO at him?&lt;/i&gt;

That was the entireity of the plan, Alzir. The 456 would never expect that! This in particular did bother me, in terms of plot holes-- most of which I can usually let go-- but their plan seemed to consist of:

Ianto: You can&#039;t take the kids!
Jack: We declare WAR!
456: OK, then.
Jack: OH SHIT.
Ianto: *dies*

On a less whimsical note. The quality of the acting in general is also down to the five-part format. They worked with a single director-- Euros Lyn-- and he stamps his visual style across the whole thing. This is a much, much subtler performance than we&#039;ve ever seen from John Barrowman. Obviously, filming in one go, with one director who was on the same page in terms of their character development/story made a big difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are certainly plot points that they didn&#8217;t address, Alzir. Plot holes are almost a convention of the scifi genre, though, and I could forgive them for most because of the fast pace and compressed format they were operating in. But of course, your mileage may vary.</p>
<p><i>What was Jack’s plan in going to confront the 456? Just yell NO at him?</i></p>
<p>That was the entireity of the plan, Alzir. The 456 would never expect that! This in particular did bother me, in terms of plot holes&#8211; most of which I can usually let go&#8211; but their plan seemed to consist of:</p>
<p>Ianto: You can&#8217;t take the kids!<br />
Jack: We declare WAR!<br />
456: OK, then.<br />
Jack: OH SHIT.<br />
Ianto: *dies*</p>
<p>On a less whimsical note. The quality of the acting in general is also down to the five-part format. They worked with a single director&#8211; Euros Lyn&#8211; and he stamps his visual style across the whole thing. This is a much, much subtler performance than we&#8217;ve ever seen from John Barrowman. Obviously, filming in one go, with one director who was on the same page in terms of their character development/story made a big difference.</p>
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		<title>By: better the mask</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>better the mask</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 19:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-43</guid>
		<description>My DVD arrived today, so I will suck it up, give it a watch, and post a response.

Re: Owen and the pheromone spray. I cannot believe that they did not realise that this made him a &lt;I&gt;date rapist&lt;/i&gt; rather than just someone up for &quot;a bit of fun&quot;. Yet another good reason to have more women in the writing room, I think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My DVD arrived today, so I will suck it up, give it a watch, and post a response.</p>
<p>Re: Owen and the pheromone spray. I cannot believe that they did not realise that this made him a <i>date rapist</i> rather than just someone up for &#8220;a bit of fun&#8221;. Yet another good reason to have more women in the writing room, I think?</p>
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		<title>By: Alzir</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Alzir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 03:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-40</guid>
		<description>I keep hearing that CoE was so well-written...  if it was, then can somebody tell me:

• What happened with the SUV? How come Torchwood allowed such advanced technology to remain in the hand a few joyriding teens?

• How come Jack doesn’t contact the Doctor?

• How come Jack goes to face the alien threat with a handgun from WW2, and not some fancy-shmancy energy gun? And why does he take Janto with him?

• What was Jack’s plan in going to confront the 456? Just yell NO at him?

• Why was the building not evacuated of all the unnecessary personnel the moment the 456 landed?

• They knew from 1965 that the alien threatened with a viral infection, so how come people were not wearing hasmat suits in the building? How come there was only one suit available?

• How come an organization as Torchwood doesn’t have an alternative sight? After the explosion, they are left only with the clothes on their back, like a bunch of amateurs.

Well written my foot…

There was some well written dialogue, (not much) but that is not something out of the ordinary for the BBC. The Beeb has standards...

In my opinion, what made Torchwood worth watching was the acting. Some great performances from Jack, Janto, Tosh, Owen, Forbisham, Lois. Gwen’s omission in this list isn’t a mistake. 

The fact that Torchwood was worth watching has to do with the way the actors have portrayed the characters in the scenes, not because of the writing, but in spite of it. Well timed silences, discrete facial expressions, telling gestures, interaction…  ALL that came from the actors, not the writers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I keep hearing that CoE was so well-written&#8230;  if it was, then can somebody tell me:</p>
<p>• What happened with the SUV? How come Torchwood allowed such advanced technology to remain in the hand a few joyriding teens?</p>
<p>• How come Jack doesn’t contact the Doctor?</p>
<p>• How come Jack goes to face the alien threat with a handgun from WW2, and not some fancy-shmancy energy gun? And why does he take Janto with him?</p>
<p>• What was Jack’s plan in going to confront the 456? Just yell NO at him?</p>
<p>• Why was the building not evacuated of all the unnecessary personnel the moment the 456 landed?</p>
<p>• They knew from 1965 that the alien threatened with a viral infection, so how come people were not wearing hasmat suits in the building? How come there was only one suit available?</p>
<p>• How come an organization as Torchwood doesn’t have an alternative sight? After the explosion, they are left only with the clothes on their back, like a bunch of amateurs.</p>
<p>Well written my foot…</p>
<p>There was some well written dialogue, (not much) but that is not something out of the ordinary for the BBC. The Beeb has standards&#8230;</p>
<p>In my opinion, what made Torchwood worth watching was the acting. Some great performances from Jack, Janto, Tosh, Owen, Forbisham, Lois. Gwen’s omission in this list isn’t a mistake. </p>
<p>The fact that Torchwood was worth watching has to do with the way the actors have portrayed the characters in the scenes, not because of the writing, but in spite of it. Well timed silences, discrete facial expressions, telling gestures, interaction…  ALL that came from the actors, not the writers.</p>
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		<title>By: flobberchops</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>flobberchops</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 00:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-38</guid>
		<description>I haven&#039;t seen Declassified yet either, but this is widely reported, by those who have seen it, as RTD&#039;s explanation for the storyline.

So yes, the &quot;Disposable Woman&quot;. I expected more of them.

What I also meant to add when I was making my initial comment about this is that a man who has nothing left to lose, risks nothing.  There are no stakes.  And I&#039;ve always been taught that it&#039;s all about what&#039;s at stake.

My only explanation for, as you say, RTD committing this vast televisual sin is that he was actually talking about Jack&#039;s leaving when he was talking about nothing left to lose in Declassified, but it was edited in such a way that it sounded like he was talking about the death scene.

Having not seen it yet, I can&#039;t say for sure, but I would hope so, because I am a great admirer of a lot of his work, and I would really hate to think he ended this part of his UK career on that particular note.

Mind you, this is the guy who gave us Owen and pheremone spray so . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t seen Declassified yet either, but this is widely reported, by those who have seen it, as RTD&#8217;s explanation for the storyline.</p>
<p>So yes, the &#8220;Disposable Woman&#8221;. I expected more of them.</p>
<p>What I also meant to add when I was making my initial comment about this is that a man who has nothing left to lose, risks nothing.  There are no stakes.  And I&#8217;ve always been taught that it&#8217;s all about what&#8217;s at stake.</p>
<p>My only explanation for, as you say, RTD committing this vast televisual sin is that he was actually talking about Jack&#8217;s leaving when he was talking about nothing left to lose in Declassified, but it was edited in such a way that it sounded like he was talking about the death scene.</p>
<p>Having not seen it yet, I can&#8217;t say for sure, but I would hope so, because I am a great admirer of a lot of his work, and I would really hate to think he ended this part of his UK career on that particular note.</p>
<p>Mind you, this is the guy who gave us Owen and pheremone spray so . . .</p>
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		<title>By: better the mask</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>better the mask</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 22:11:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-37</guid>
		<description>Ah, well. I can see how &lt;I&gt;Children of Earth&lt;/i&gt; would be an excellent career move in terms of getting to Hollywood, especially considering &lt;I&gt;Torchwood&lt;/i&gt; gets better ratings than &lt;I&gt;Doctor Who&lt;/i&gt; on BBC America.

The way CoE ended certainly seemed to suggest that they did not intend to continue the series, and even if they did, would be starting it over from scratch, which is indeed, rather disappointing for established fans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, well. I can see how <i>Children of Earth</i> would be an excellent career move in terms of getting to Hollywood, especially considering <i>Torchwood</i> gets better ratings than <i>Doctor Who</i> on BBC America.</p>
<p>The way CoE ended certainly seemed to suggest that they did not intend to continue the series, and even if they did, would be starting it over from scratch, which is indeed, rather disappointing for established fans.</p>
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		<title>By: Alzir</title>
		<link>http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228&#038;cpage=1#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>Alzir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jul 2009 21:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thisunrealcity.com/blog/?p=228#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Here is the explanation for all that happened in the last series:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113365/Dr-Who-genius-leaves-for-America

I guess RDT needed to create a storm before going to Hollywood… anny publicity is good publicity, no matter how manny fans it dissapoints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the explanation for all that happened in the last series:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113365/Dr-Who-genius-leaves-for-America" rel="nofollow">http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/113365/Dr-Who-genius-leaves-for-America</a></p>
<p>I guess RDT needed to create a storm before going to Hollywood… anny publicity is good publicity, no matter how manny fans it dissapoints.</p>
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